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Casters vs melee

 
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Are melee more powerfull than casters?
Yes
15%
 15%  [ 2 ]
No
84%
 84%  [ 11 ]
Total Votes : 13

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Hoeghbitten



Joined: 30 Sep 2013
Posts: 2
Location: Denmark

PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 10:45 am    Post subject: Casters vs melee Reply with quote

Alright I throw this out here

After playing a caster both mage and cleric for any years and then recently gone over to melee fighter I have noticed how overpowered melee are compared to spells. Take a fighter type use a two handed weapon and deal out insane amount of damage each round everyround and stack it with impale and rush anmd sweepingblow on multiple foes and most died very very fast.
Now spend 10 minutes memorizing spells and do the same with a mage, use lots of gold on stoneskin minions and buffs and then more on the spells you will be casting and you wont see the same insane amount of damage as the fighter type with a weapon, dam he delivers each round forever for free.

I have tested it against shifters with a melee char and a caster char(mage) and the different is very clear....The fighter can defeat a shifter ranger/thief/fighter in one to two rounds, and mage who will use about 1o mins to prepare can do the same in maybe 3-4 round. The fighter can just waltz around bashing and hitting on the mobs he sees without preparing, while the mage will run run out of spell sooner or later.

A few years back the mage was the king of the hill, hence the reason to use hard owned gold and finding components to cast most spells, the fighter gets the same power if not more for free with preparing the spells or the time to find things to cast spells. On top of that he deal more damage than a mage cleric or psion will ever do. Also throwing in the obvious that mages cant use any armor and have been become weaker defensive wise since stoneskin was altered.

I think it is pretty obvious when we look at what classes we have running around...and what strikes me...no psions and no mages. The cleric who are about are all melee based and no caster based.

Seems to me something is very wrong.
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Hoeghbitten



Joined: 30 Sep 2013
Posts: 2
Location: Denmark

PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 11:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think I should clarify that it is the 2hd users that breaks the balance....I dont believe the sword and board and dual wielders dish as much damage out melee wise as the 2hd users.
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Daerah



Joined: 30 Sep 2013
Posts: 10

PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 2:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A mage kan reach same damage potential.
But he would have to prepare insanely much.

E.G.
wall of fire + Ice storm + Incendiary cloud + Meteor swarm.
That should equal pretty much to a 2-handers damage (without rush).
You can easily PvE like that. but PvP you have to use other tools of course.

Mage aren't all about damage however. Remember their survivability compared to the warrior. Minions spam, blink and stoneskin (which feel ridiculous paying 3000g per pop when droods get it as a freebee).
They get a escape spell, stuns. And a general more varied play style than just 'bash bash'

If you talk PeevaPee. yea, the two-hander fighter will 0wn the mage pretty much every time! (you can get that lucky dominate or Pw-stun in, but the first round is primarily reserved for either blink or lower resistance, and then rush hits).

But in PvE, Mage's are will ruling pretty much (if you got the patience for the hours without end of memorization).

A two-hander warrior should deal insane damage with his sword/hammer ... afterall, it is everything he got!
100 damage per hit (at end lvls) might be on the high side, I agree is pretty much unsurvivable in pvp.

For PvE. I would love to make it easier on the mage on the generic minion grind.
E.G. I'd love to see Tensers Transformation spell included. Very Happy
http://ddowiki.com/page/Tenser's_Transformation

But those two classes are very difficult to compare, as the play style are so very different!

But in generally, everything you compare with with two-handed weapons, will loose :p
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beshaba



Joined: 02 Aug 2011
Posts: 55

PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 8:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you're talking raw damage with top tier gear, then I'd say the fighter wins. But there's several catches: they're very gear-dependent, and while strong in the early levels and late ones they're weaker in the mid-range. Without a good weapon, they're much weaker. A mage has the benefit of having his power tied to his class skills more (and really shouldn't ever lack a necessary spell or lose his spells, with so many ways to safeguard them between mastery and backups).

And again, this is just damage. A melee can't turn invisible on a whim, detect invis, identify, teleport, use telepathy, scry, or any other number of utilities that casters all seem to take for granted, without an outside item (again, gear-based) allowing them to do so. It's all part of the package, so keep that in mind when you're min/maxing your character.
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Verbannon



Joined: 30 Sep 2013
Posts: 398

PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 9:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No mages? What am I? Chopped liver?
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diego



Joined: 30 Jul 2011
Posts: 14

PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 11:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Verbannon wrote:
No mages? What am I? Chopped liver?


No comment? Hey, do I smell a delicatessen? Very Happy
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Nienne
Immortal


Joined: 17 Nov 2006
Posts: 2609
Location: Aussieland

PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2013 12:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pretty much per Beshaba, and situational to boot; mages/casters also have far more defenses to call upon than just armor and a few feats. They have far greater accessory capacity (teleports, invis, pws) to boot and are nowhere as gear reliant. I don't think the divide is so vast, and so unsupported by other perks to make up for it, that we are overly concerned about it right now.
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Verbannon



Joined: 30 Sep 2013
Posts: 398

PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2013 5:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't understand your post diego.
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hades



Joined: 01 Jul 2009
Posts: 656

PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2013 8:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Verbannon wrote:
I don't understand your post diego.

I understand it Twisted Evil
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undelhorn



Joined: 20 Jun 2014
Posts: 25

PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 9:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I hate magik, but I'm a Dwarf and a fighter. It can be a serious B to deal with. Then again I don't use 2hd. I go for the shield so I'm more about staying alive than damage. Try playing a mage that way. Its a good tactic so far for me and the hope is that in PvP vs a 2hd they won't hurt me at all and I can just whittle them away. Not sure if it'll work out like that, but it seems to work against 2hd shifters. Its mainly the magik type that give me trouble, but not for long. Working on something to cover that hole in my heavily armored defense.
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Loraedi
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 18, 2014 8:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I disagree...
Once druids reach LV11, the bear shapeshift feat seems to overpower just about all other classes. Add that to no-cost stoneskin, barkskin, spellmastery used on 'cure light wounds', and nature's ally, druids can go all day.
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