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Realistic Parties
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Verbannon



Joined: 30 Sep 2013
Posts: 385

PostPosted: Sat Sep 05, 2015 4:16 am    Post subject: Realistic Parties Reply with quote

Four people is honestly the highest that can be expected anymore for a party. With three being the true average right now.

I think super bosses should be rebalanced to assume this number then scale up a bit harder with diminishing returns in the boss's strength if the party goes higher.

Like say Klauth is at 100% strength against a party of 1-4. With him Balanced to be a hard but doable fight for 4. If 5 attack him his strength goes up to 120%. if 6 then 135% and so on.

Same with other super bosses.
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Sierra



Joined: 09 Mar 2015
Posts: 15
Location: Somewhere in Dagger

PostPosted: Sat Sep 05, 2015 2:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the whole point of Klauth (and possibly some other 'giants' I haven't seen yet) was to be too big for a mere four adventurers to take on. 5-6 seems a fair minimum to me; that adds to the 'impossible-to-kill-' factor.
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Verbannon



Joined: 30 Sep 2013
Posts: 385

PostPosted: Sat Sep 05, 2015 10:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You say mere party of four like thats an easy number to obtain. :/

The main problem I have though with something requiring a party of five or six, even if we had a larger player base is that, in any case it requires someone or someones looking to go to Klauth to prepare beforehand by begging people to help. And that requires the kind of RP I kind of hate the most "Hey I want loot! Come help me get lootz!"

With a smaller target number you can just say "So what do we want to do today?" "I dunno, how about we go after Klauth?" "We'll need a fourth, lets ask "X" And it becomes an activity with more organic rp and less unnatural rp.

I know on one hand having 'goals' that can require people to reach out outside of their own usual party is laudible.

On the other hand D&D is usually about the party and party dynamics which in 2e was a party of 4. And I don't think its a bad thing to support small party dynamics and rp as well as the interactions between different small parties.
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LordCastius



Joined: 17 Feb 2016
Posts: 2

PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2016 7:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the idea is that most hms and 40 level players ARENT suppose to all have klauths treasure horde. Its a rare occasion that takes proper planning and possibly some working together between enemies to get it done, and that opens up doors of roleplay that are rarely touched. Aka coming together for a common goal between gwid and evil
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Nienne
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Joined: 17 Nov 2006
Posts: 2572
Location: Aussieland

PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2016 10:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Basically what Castius said. Pretty much every area in the game is accessible with the group of 2-4; I can't bring to mind any other area in the game that I haven't seen successfully done at some point with two players or less. Klauth would be the single exception, and that is deliberate; he's a case where we don't expect him to be killed often. It's a claim to fame for an adventurer to have been present at those points where enough powerful folk could be gathered to contend with him.

There's also perfectly reasonable RP to be lifted for going - he's an ancient red after all. If you can't find something beyond "lewt" you're not trying very hard!
-the destruction he would cause and the threat he presents to basically everywhere would be lacking in comparison. Just because he doesn't rock up to stomp on Shadow City bi-weekly doesn't make the danger he presents to the realm any less (tho he does do that on occasion!). That presents a clear motivation for a spread of aligns (both good and lawful). And the evils and chaotics can quite happily do it because they would benefit and/or feel like it respectively Razz
-the fame and prestige that would go with putting him down has very few comparisons, short of major one-off plot bosses. When you're the biggest of big adventurers, representing yourself/your faith/your people/your whatever, that should be a draw card in and of itself. How many fantasy-set tales are about the knight slaying the mighty dragon, after all?

So there's perfectly reasonable options for people to want to go and deal with him without the "zomg lewtz" card. Though tbh, when you say "ancient red" that's kinda a package deal even by IC expectations. Dragons are always known to keep shineys Smile
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tsera
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Joined: 13 Apr 2007
Posts: 134

PostPosted: Sat Feb 20, 2016 2:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wait, he doesn't make periodic raids? ...This must be rectified! Also.. you should be thankful I do not add code to him to make him come after the things stolen from his horde like Geonslu or Xerle do... Though, I think that would be sufficiently epic. Smile
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LordCastius



Joined: 17 Feb 2016
Posts: 2

PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2016 3:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Klauth awakens from his slumber and comes to reclaim his plate!!!!

You declare in a deep bass: Oh shit....
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pangretor



Joined: 16 Jan 2014
Posts: 17
Location: Atlanta, GA

PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2016 9:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sooooooo we gonna go kill this dragon or nah? and we have to bring that one person that thinks they can skin things but just can't.

I have never had the opportunity to go after him, So if anyone is down, let me know, I've tried in the past to "rid the threat of Klauth" and align good and evil for a run but we never could get the right people for it or people just called me crazy, but Pang just wants to have fun Sad

I think the big thing is that when some of our higher level players worked hard to get all their gear, they really don't want to risk it all and start from square one again. I'm just assuming, maybe that isn't the case buuuuuut I just call it how I see it.

Pang Out
*mic drop*
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saide
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Joined: 18 Mar 2007
Posts: 341

PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2016 10:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pang,

I actually agree with you about the risking gear and having to start over part.

We've been discussing some method of alleviating this at least to an extent and still making death something you want to avoid. Personally I think this is something we need to deal with now.

As far as I know we are the only game where you lose all of your gear when you die - there are other muds that do this but they also usually have either a more active community that helps each other retrieve gear or some other method of getting your corpse back.
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pangretor



Joined: 16 Jan 2014
Posts: 17
Location: Atlanta, GA

PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2016 2:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the Soul Bind thing is enough, maybe have the ability to soul bind 2 or 3 things as you get to a higher level, even though it's only HM, maybe set it for when you get past the swords quest you get 1, 30 you get 2, and 40 you get 3 or something. I don't mind dying but I knew that coming in with the character, it was gonna happen lol, some just don't want to die and that would be good RP for their character, just depends really.

Another way, if it's code-able, when you suffer a Non-PK Death, you have the opportunity to send out a rogue warrior from your temple for some coin, and he can go get your corpse for you but won't bring back everything, the reasons being he just cannot carry enough, or he got greedy and took some for himself, depending on the faith, a member of Tyr is an example for the former, and Mask for the latter.

Maybe the whereabouts of your corpse could play a part in what and how much you get back, if you die in a dungeon or dragon lair, you won't get much because the rogue will make it a quick job, get in and get out. But if you died on a Mountain Pass or forest, he doesn't have the stress of losing his own life while gathering your shit.

OR just make it a possibility that the rogue doesn't return because he too was slain on the mission. Could make it a roll of the dice thing depending on one's donations to their Church, if that is possible, or their level.

Just brainstorming as I type Smile

Death and the fear of death is a great tool in this game... it can bring out many different confrontations among PC's, could breed alliances among those that wouldn't necessarily ally with each other, as well as create new enemies that weren't on your radar before.

I don't think there is a problem with the system when it pertains to Death, but again, I got re-equipping down to a science.
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saide
Immortal


Joined: 18 Mar 2007
Posts: 341

PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2016 2:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As a caster, in general, it is dramatically easier to re-equip. You are a lot more able to actually re-equip than melee is. Most of your power is innate - IE you can still buff, do damage, etc. I guess I could make it so that is all tied to some object - you get one back on death that lets you cast level 1-3 spells or something Wink

The idea of having a temple recover your corpse is something that we have been considering and the soul bind thing. It's still up in the air at the moment. Personally my biggest fear is that we are keeping new people away or keeping people from playing melee classes because of how harsh death is on SG.


P.S. I am not going to do the caster thing - but hopefully the concept gives you an idea of how difficult it is to re-equip as melee. It gets worse at higher level when you have either sentimental gear or gear that is difficult to obtain.
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pangretor



Joined: 16 Jan 2014
Posts: 17
Location: Atlanta, GA

PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2016 3:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah I guess so! lol

They can always employ good ole Pangretor to get their stuff...for a favor.
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ViolaRose



Joined: 20 Apr 2015
Posts: 65

PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2016 11:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just wanted to say: I like this. Smile

Anything that encourages exploration isn't detrimental at this point, as the player base grows smaller and parties become more infrequent.

Maybe upon death (non-pk) players can be given a choice if they wish to be resurrected by their church, which would cost current exp penalty and a half (or double!), but there's like a 90% chance they'd have all their shiniest things back, or they can just resurrect as usual and go about their corpse gathering or whatever they want to do (perhaps even at a minimal exp loss just to offset the choices even more?)

Or there's the old consideration of player storage areas, so melee users can stash away an extra sword and armor to help in getting themselves re-equipped (considering mages get to stash their comps). Tbh, I'd like storage simply so I can change my daily outfits, or to make alter self a little bit more streamlined.. but that's another thread entirely! Smile
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pangretor



Joined: 16 Jan 2014
Posts: 17
Location: Atlanta, GA

PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2016 7:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

With the Eschew Materials rework a while back I, as a Sorcerer, have found that the components storage is not needed as much as it once was, I have components stashed every which way around the world but don't touch them as much as I once did as most of my main spells that i use a lot don't need components any more. Not sure if it is the same with mages, bards, or psions, but I do like that idea of the player storage. It would help out those melee characters with having a more reliable reequip on death than the standard reequip the temples give. Idk if I would even use it, and if I did i would probably forget I had it.

And like Miss Rose said, I would use it for things other than "reequipping" as that isn't an issue for me as Saide pointed out. I would probably store billets in there for crafting as finding a suitable billet of high quality material is harder than soloing Klauth, at least for me.. lol
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Verbannon



Joined: 30 Sep 2013
Posts: 385

PostPosted: Sat Jun 25, 2016 2:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Has anyone tried soulbinding their token box? As a wizard I soulbind my robe and so I come back with a book and full components already on me. But for others if you could soulbind the token box, there is your instant reequip right there.
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