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How to improve the Mud
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kellan



Joined: 27 Oct 2013
Posts: 39

PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2016 6:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello Friends,

I'm seriously wondering what the future holds for SG. I feel like the way I play SG has been told to stop playing and that we don't want those who RP. I have seen stuff that disturbs me. I have seen rangers of Grumbar wielding a sword of Cyric, which I wrote and had implemented, I know that to acquire that sword one must supplicate oneself to Cyric for it. The idea for this blade was meant to inspire RP, but I only see munchkins gathering it, with no immortal staff to hold anyone accountable, I want to know if the game even has players who wish to RP?

While Saide and I do not see eye to eye on a lot of subjects when it comes to RP enforcement, I do not believe his intentions were to make the game free from RP, but I believe that has become the result.

We had our highest playerbase during the days of "bitchy" rp enforcement and though I didn't always agree with decisions or how strict the staff was during this period, I now completely understand it. You give players an inch, they take a mile. I have zero issue with odd shit being RPed if it is Rped. I RPed a Cyricist wo fell into "love" or more like an obsession, but it still was against Cyric in a lot of ways. The staff let it go, because we rped it for years. I don't agree with the Drow plot line, but THEY rped it, players reacting to them didn't. I've seen players abandon classes and race from being a cleric to being an "archmage". It takes time and it should be rped IMO.

Do we care about any of these standards at all going forward? If not, please just say so and I'll go away. You won't have to worry about me anymore as it'll be the reason I no longer play. I can't play SG where all people care about is killing Klauth, where the immortals are too scared of judging to hold people somewhat accountable. We roll races, stats, alignment for a reason. If we didn't, won't we be better off playing WoW or Skyrim?

Alzar
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cyric
Immortal


Joined: 17 Nov 2006
Posts: 291
Location: Singapore

PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2016 9:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have supplicants? Smile

On a more serious note, I'd like to point out that we had our highest player base prior to the severe rp and online time restrictions. We lost a lot of players when online time reqs went went in.

That being said, I think we do need to have enforcement of some kind. It should be in the form of ic repercussions combined with ooc communication. I think a large part of the issue is lack of playtime from people who have the authority to do so. Players are going to have to watch out for each other and call it out (politely).

As far as class switching goes, maybe we do need to enforce some kind of playtime limit. A good idea was put up which allowed players to grind to their heart's content, but the xp only becomes useful over time. We could look at putting in a similar system.
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saide
Immortal


Joined: 18 Mar 2007
Posts: 362

PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2016 12:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We had the most playes (20+ online most of the time) way back when there were no adjectives and people just played the game and developed friends or allies based on alignment. Back when you didn't have to do paper work to get involved with PK and you just didn't interact (typically) with the person who pkilled you.

All that being said it was never my intention to make SG rp less but to reduce requirements on people who didn't have all day to play so that they too could develop interesting and high level characters. To hopefully facilitate conflict and friendships in order to further our stories.
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kellan



Joined: 27 Oct 2013
Posts: 39

PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2016 4:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've played SG for 18 years roughly about the same time as Saide. I don't recall a period without adjectives, I always remember rolling as a blah race with blah hair and eyes. I do know Cyric is way older than us, but I don't really feel we lost that many during the avatarmail, pk requirements.

We had 20+ during NF/Shry battles with enough elves to drow people in feywine production. It was a great period, but it was HEAVILY RP enforced. Shar to Selune, To Lurue with Ibby in there. They all held us to standards that improved the story. Granted, they didn't always do it with the most polite manner Razz Players can be bitches and I personally have seen RP without avatars where each side rps their stats etc. Most of Alzar's career was without avatars and Azalon, Saqira, Krusk, Dorje, Amarina, Belen, Rayne all these players RPed well, did we have Rayne asking to kill Klauth every other day, yep, that is Rayne though, but he did RP. He rped well. However, we held each other to high standards.

Saide, I know you and I have argued about this in great deal and you don't like to debate. Your intentions were great, but what you did was release the people who don't want to rp into a free-for-all type game. That is how they view it and that is where it is going. We have lost most of the Rpers since June and I don't feel welcomed on the game, because I'm being told my style in ancient and it doesn't matter anymore. You can't have RP with people who only want to kill mobs, pk and get the best gear regardless of alignment, class or anything. You get a deed for Hrotha that says you begged or bowed before CYric. Do rangers really want a sword from the god of undead? Do we want that? Do we natural classes rping with swords of murder no matter if the ranger is evil, they would know it isn't natural, it has a damn soul trapped in it. Do we want natural beings traveling with unnatural beings without hours of rp to just fight Klauth? Was that your intention my friend, because it feels like it is. I'm not trying to upset you or frustrate you, but I feel basically eliminated in this mud.

I also apologize, I thought I put this in the RP thread.

Didn't mean to place it here.

Alzy
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Zathery



Joined: 30 Sep 2013
Posts: 38
Location: Sweden

PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2016 5:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Back in 'the day' your newbie arse was dropped in MAH in shadow and it was full of weird freaks like Nightfall and drow and ogres and shit. I recall finishing rolling one PC and 'came to life' watching a low level ogre mage running out of spells and wielding his book to beat another lowbie into submission. Back in the day you didn't have a set number of attribute points and could roll for days to get the max roll.

Bla bla bla. Back in the day, there were titles when you reached HM, no adjectives but we did have describes. But back then the game was more an adventure/PK hub with RP encouraged. OOC stuff was insta rid, and you had to maintain a character but the enforcement of RP wasn't there, for example when I got PK'd once, I told my buddies, we got me some gear and smacked the guy who PK'd me. Back then, during my primetime, 5-10pm Eu time, there could be upwards of 40 people online, no less than 20. We had a nice Eu playerbase.

We did loose an amount of players in the transition when RP enforcement, fear or death and the like came into effect. But after that dust settled I loved the place SG became. There are tons of places to go, even more so these days, if you want adventure. I have Dark Souls 1-3, Wild Hunt. Hell I think a reason why WoW was my drug for awhile was the old SG 'hard encounter, awesome loot' addiction.

But SG became the place to have a story, and not just a story, but your own story.

There are a good few reasons why I'm AWOL but I thought I'd just get old on you all for abit.
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Intelligence is knowing a tomato is a fruit,
Wisdom is knowing not to put it into a fruit salad.

Horrible at SG since 1998
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kellan



Joined: 27 Oct 2013
Posts: 39

PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2016 7:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zath,

thanks for the removal titles. I had completely forgot about them.

Your own story is very special, can't really do that anywhere else.
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pangretor



Joined: 16 Jan 2014
Posts: 17
Location: Atlanta, GA

PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2016 10:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I may not be the best at RP, especially when I started, I had to change that to get anywhere within the game. I like RP tho, not much I can do otherwise besides adventure alone which is utterly boring.. I always hear about how good it was back in the day and I wished I experienced it, maybe I would of become better at RP. But as to what alzar said, I don't get why people use that weapon, or any other deity items without proper RP. I am able to get plenty of gear better than what I have, but it wouldn't fit Pang and annoy everyone with its echoes Smile. When I see some with the Aura of Shade and they have no business even wanting it, let alone spending the tokens to get it, I ask them and get play it off somehow. I got it once cuz I didn't know what it was but then I tried my best to twist pangs RP to fit why he would have it.

So to all the old players that I've played with when I was starting out, thanks for teaching me stuff, and I hope you return sometime. I guess I failed in passing the lessons along
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Pangretor
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kellan



Joined: 27 Oct 2013
Posts: 39

PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2016 11:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pang,

thanks for the reply. I don't think you failed, because I believe some of the munchkins are older than you and are returning because they see the changes the imm staff put in as a way to avoid RP. The intention was to take away PT requirements for those who can play 5 hours a week or 2 and allow them to still enjoy the game.

It wasn't to just power level, to not care about RP. I know Powereleveling is easy, I've done it with an alt or two, but if we all hold each other accountable and try to craft amazing stories it'd be easier to market this game to new people, because Verbie spoke the truth when he said RP is all SG has going for it. It is our selling point.

Pang, thanks for learning.
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cyric
Immortal


Joined: 17 Nov 2006
Posts: 291
Location: Singapore

PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2016 1:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Almost 20 years have passed since the 'old days' before playtime requirements and adjectives. A hack and slash text game won't cut it, we need (reasonable, polite) rp standards and we need to enforce them, and we need to put players together so opportunity for rp takes place. I still think the root problem for everything is low player base. With more players, we can have more people to rp with and more people to watch the rp and run plots.

This weekend I'm going to post in a recruitment thread. We'll see if we get any new ppl logging in.
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Verbannon



Joined: 30 Sep 2013
Posts: 398

PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2016 5:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know everytime I log on it feels like normal. People small talk they stay in character. It just feels normal. I mean the player base has been low as long as I've played I've had stretches where there has only been me on and no one else for weeks at a time. The only thing I've noticed that seemed a little different was that there after one two week break I didn't realize I had taken I came back and there were a whole lot more level 30+ I never ever seen before. And I'm pretty sure people RPing their equipment isn't a new issue I don't other than a few select pieces that auto emote I don't think anyone ever really rps their equipment. I recall being told once by an unknown Someone that equipment RP was best kept loose until the new magic item creation system was put in place. Though that was back when I wore only Tempusian armor even though it was far too weak for my level.
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PM me in the forum here when you want me on to RP or dungeon dive. The forum will automatically notify me by e-mail. Then my e-mail will send me a text message. Then I will get on likely within minutes.
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myrkul



Joined: 19 Dec 2009
Posts: 279

PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2016 2:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

saide wrote:

All that being said it was never my intention to make SG rp less but to reduce requirements on people who didn't have all day to play so that they too could develop interesting and high level characters. To hopefully facilitate conflict and friendships in order to further our stories.


Thank you Saide! This is well said.

Please bear with me, I have 3 observations, and 1 suggestion:

1.) We want a seamless experience for new people to log on and just play. So I agree with making things easier for people to "get in the game" and I've never been a fan of play time requirements.

2.) Avatars want to run plots, not hand hold people or do enforcement.

3.) The best source of RP wisdom is from experienced players who see way more than any avatar can do as a single person.

So suggestion:

Can we have Facebook-style "Likes" so that any player can add a short RP note to any other player? A player with lots of "Likes" and positive comments is probably doing a good job on RP which is good to know -- it could be part of a HM review process. Likewise, if a player is just grinding all day, they won't have any "Likes" because that player did not talk to anyone.

example:
rplike myrkul "Myrkul, great zombie attack at the Rhapsody!" Smile
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Verbannon



Joined: 30 Sep 2013
Posts: 398

PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2016 3:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thats more like reputation than likes. Since there should be a 30 character minimal requirement alongside each like imo. But I love the idea.
_________________
PM me in the forum here when you want me on to RP or dungeon dive. The forum will automatically notify me by e-mail. Then my e-mail will send me a text message. Then I will get on likely within minutes.
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ViolaRose



Joined: 20 Apr 2015
Posts: 66

PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2016 6:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If this idea means we can be rid of HM accounts so people actually have to try to earn it again, I support it. And while we're at it, let's do a clean sweep and drop us all to level zero and make everyone re-earn it.

(That said, do many players even bother with their own pc notes, and should we expect they'd be bothered to add to another player's?) Shocked
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Verbannon



Joined: 30 Sep 2013
Posts: 398

PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2016 6:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I dont mind a full reset.
_________________
PM me in the forum here when you want me on to RP or dungeon dive. The forum will automatically notify me by e-mail. Then my e-mail will send me a text message. Then I will get on likely within minutes.
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myrkul



Joined: 19 Dec 2009
Posts: 279

PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2016 8:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ViolaRose wrote:

(That said, do many players even bother with their own pc notes, and should we expect they'd be bothered to add to another player's?) Shocked


Oh good lord no more paperwork Shocked

The idea is simple - just send your fellow players a "like" if someone is doing a good job, and maybe 1-2 sentences, at most. The point is to play the game not do paperwork!!

Over time, people who interact and RP will have lots of likes, and people who don't interact won't have very many at all.

example:
rplike myrkul "Great Time of Troubles RP, try to scream more next time I slay you, haha. Luv Mystra X0X0" Smile

Anyways, just an idea for my mortal friends, please stop by the Fugue planes, it's much nicer than Kelemvor's place, although the music does get a little old Smile
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