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Nienne
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Joined: 17 Nov 2006
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Location: Aussieland

PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2015 9:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Main problem with exp limitation (which I'd mulled) as opposed to a true exp cost, is that it means nothing to a max-level character... so not all cases make that a feasible option.
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Verbannon



Joined: 30 Sep 2013
Posts: 398

PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2015 10:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe instead of a 'get out of dungeon' free card. Its an option to save the party location, membership, hp and kit numbers and teleport them all out. Once done it cannot be redone anywhere until the party regroups and teleports back and finishes the dungeon. In the event one of the party members permanently vanish the party will then have to either risk going through down a man or beg for mercy from an imm.
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Nienne
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Joined: 17 Nov 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2015 11:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

While it's a good thought, I'd rather something that didn't require a 'beg for mercy from an imm', or awaiting all party-mates to return (since in some cases it just isn't possible). Anything we can have that works on its own, regardless of whether an imm or certain PCs are present, is generally far more desirable - for the same reason you're finding frustrations when players pike out of plots. It tends to upset the applecart to have to wait for someone when they may just not be able to appear Smile
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Verbannon



Joined: 30 Sep 2013
Posts: 398

PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 1:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Then instead of 'beg for imm' just set a high gold price of a million gold to have the save deleted and reset? Anyone pays it, it gets reset for the whole party? That way you get it as a gold sink, make it unsustainable for those who would abuse it, but don't make it too painful to the poor.
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Nienne
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Location: Aussieland

PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 3:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, it'd have to be something more like that - whether it be gold, or exp, or whatever cost.

That said, I honestly do prefer the idea of the reset button I think, as any way out of a locked quest dungeon is already well beyond what we tend to like allowing - so having to restart (at least once you've learned how it all works) seems like a fair enough detriment as well.
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hades



Joined: 01 Jul 2009
Posts: 656

PostPosted: Mon Apr 27, 2015 1:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Personally I think same-as-death exp cost and all of one's gold is a small price to pay compared to at least one death and loss of all gear.
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beshaba



Joined: 02 Aug 2011
Posts: 55

PostPosted: Mon Apr 27, 2015 2:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think everyone is putting the cost too high when they include xp and gold. Really, the idea behind this is for people who don't have time to regularly invest in dungeons who may have to leave due to RL constraints. These players don't have the abundance of xp and gold. Yes, we all know we need ways for highly active players to sink these resources, but I don't think this is the time or place to put up roadblocks.

Put it on a month timer. No one can abuse something so infrequent, and this still allows those players who don't have a lot of leisure time to attempt a dungeon once in a while.
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Nienne
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 27, 2015 4:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm inclined to agree, though the potential for abuse still does bother me - it only takes a one-off for a very cheesy powerleveller abusing OOC to cruise through half a zone and get plenty of PK-happy gear to ruin everyone's day with. I feel like death-cost exp AND all of one's gold is serious overkill for players with limited time to recoup either the lost exp or the sudden lack of any money whatsoever.

I'm more inclined to think that this would be feasible at a lower cost once we manage to introduce the system (in the works) requiring a completed area to use the items from said area. This would mean that half-running something isn't going to result in usable freebie gear, which removes the key abuse potential. That would allow us to run it with little or no actual penalty; then even if it is on a timer or whatever, the true newbies can take their shot at the dungeon and get some real experience without fearing being abandoned there.
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Ares
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Joined: 19 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 27, 2015 7:37 am    Post subject: Tent Reply with quote

Garrett once mentioned an idea for a tent that you could set up that would be there after a reboot. Something like this might help, but the person would still have to get themselves out of the area when they got back. Or at least contact someone/hope someone contacts them.

Not sure if this would be a good compromise or not in this instance.
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undelhorn



Joined: 20 Jun 2014
Posts: 25

PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2015 6:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is already a gold sink item in game that will teleport you back to where-ever you want. It works like Gate. You just have to find the vendor as there is only 1. Its also not that expensive and it has 3 or 5 charges if I remember correctly.
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Zathery



Joined: 30 Sep 2013
Posts: 38
Location: Sweden

PostPosted: Sun May 24, 2015 9:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nienne I'm starting to worry about you, everywhere you look you see abuse Sad

But I agree with this, I've worked on-call. Family and other random emergencies. So an idea like this would actually help the game instead of damage it, making people more willing to visit the more time demanding area's in the game and allow coders to actually create more rather than smaller zones or one off boss areas.

But how to avoid the dreaded abuse without it being so costly it discourages people with fragile playtimes instead of encouraging them. Well to be honest the easiest way for me is a 'bail mail'. Where you have to submit where you went, who was with you, and a reason for needing to leave. When using the bail command you get dropped into the text editor and have to submit said things. I think it'll become clear quite quickly if someone is abusing it. And if they are they are a cancer upon a Roleplaying game and should be dealt with as such. OOC jail time, removal of items/exp, removal of HM (if applicable), rid, chinese water torture and so forth.

A main reason to why i stopped playing games like WoW 6 years ago, besides it loosing its appeal, was I valued the aspect of quicksave and alt-f4 when time pressed upon me. I do want to believe that most of us here, when going to a place like CT are fairly sure they have time required, I mean if you say 'lets do CT for the first time' and you know you have to get to bed in two hours or your kidnapper returns soon, then you've only got yourself to blame for being an idiot. But if you're certain you can play and suddenly shit happens, you shouldn't be punished for trying to play a part of the game people spent weeks if not months or years producing.

As said, the bulk of this games players have been around for a long time, myself included, we aren't teenagers who don't need no sleep or have no of them obligations, and the game needs to adjust both it's content (in this case the bail command) and it's attitude (instead of just seeing potential for abuse, punch people in the face whom are abusing).

I know I'm not a coder, but is it not possible to add a few monitoring things to accompany a bail command, like after the bail mail is submitted the person and everyone in the party is teleported to their temples lets say. If bailee doesn't logoff within 5 minutes they are flagged, if the bailee returns shortly after leaving, if the command is oftenly used etc. So you have the reveiw of the bailmail aswell as flags upon suspicious activity.

I'm not a fan of the gold/exp sink idea for OOC things, like this, since this idea is purposefully made for those whom lack the playtime to accidently aquire heaps of gold, I say accidently because it's a biproduct of anything you do, questing, exploring, grinding, shifter-ing etc. It should be viewed solely as an OOC tool incase shit hits the fan, and abuse should be punished mainly with OOC means, of course item removal is simply if you abuse it to escape death, but that's akin to logging out in the middle of a PK event just because you didn't want to die.
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Nienne
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Joined: 17 Nov 2006
Posts: 2609
Location: Aussieland

PostPosted: Sun May 24, 2015 11:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zathery wrote:
Nienne I'm starting to worry about you, everywhere you look you see abuse Sad


Unfortunately, that's part of the job. Not because I have a poor perspective on players, but because I know there are a small group who can potentially devalue something for the rest of you. Cheating doesn't really hurt us imms at the end of the day - it hurts the majority of the players who are playing the game constructively. So as a responsible coder, it's my first job to try and pull something apart for abuse. If I can't do that, it's a solid idea Wink

Sorry I haven't gotten to this one yet, it's high on the list but as I'm already part-way through the mage/epic feat stuff I'm probably going to look at knocking that out before I move onto this one. Trying not to get too scattered on projects & end up burnt out.
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Zathery



Joined: 30 Sep 2013
Posts: 38
Location: Sweden

PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2015 12:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Simple fix, remove those players.
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undelhorn



Joined: 20 Jun 2014
Posts: 25

PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2015 9:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was wrong the item I am thinking about blows up when used. It use to work, but I think it got removed because having a buyable gate spell might have been sort of broken. At least that is why they removed some of the other wares from that vendor.
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