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Spreading the word
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Tels



Joined: 24 Nov 2017
Posts: 23

PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 7:15 pm    Post subject: Spreading the word Reply with quote

So I just wanna ask for everyones opinion on working out some sort of advertisement for SG that can be posted to RP boards and similiar places, an influx of new players I think would help the game immensely, this should be obvious really. Any thoughts out there on the content and such?
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ViolaRose



Joined: 20 Apr 2015
Posts: 113

PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2018 1:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What I think separates sg from other muds is our ability to customize EVERYTHING, and also it's just a very pretty mud, with lovely colors and great writing (at least the more recent stuff). That's what I miss when I try out other muds. So that's what I'd personally focus on.

Here's a promotion I've posted in the past (awhile back, so things have mebbe changed). Feel free to update it, make it less generic and use it if ya want.

http://www.mudconnect.com/SMF/index.php?topic=79725.msg208564#msg208564

One thing I've noticed is that oftentimes, on mud sites, people ask for recommendations, and it tends to be the same people, promoting the same muds, who respond. So those are the muds that have the best playerbases. So really we just need a dedicated public relations person. Very Happy
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kassius
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Joined: 17 Aug 2017
Posts: 243

PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2018 3:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My major concern with spreading the word of SG is anyone who logs into our mud or views our webpage will see a place that is deserted. It would take a very interested party to still consider SG after that unless they are just looking for Hack-N-Slash by themselves. That causes a viscous cycle in my opinion, you recruit, player checks us out, no one is there, player is gone because he feels the playerbase/mud is dead. I have talked to a few other immortals/players in the past and I won't have started playing SG if the first time I logged in there were 3 or 4 people logged in or as it currently is 1 or zero, my feelings is the others won't have either.

My solution is we need to find a way to rekindle the fire in longtime players gone who have the time or wish to play, get past our issues as a community and come together to be more welcoming and less elitist/assholish to build upon that. I know in the past I've contribute to that elitist, assholishness, I am trying not to and am trying to let my perceived feelings of favoritism, bitterness, hatred etc go. I am willing to work and run plots for anyone should those plots make sense. This leads to my suggest which again is to rebuild old player base OR we need to sell Nienne on creating glory hunter like PC's from our accounts(agreeing not to dual play) and stuff the wholist so full that no one could see through the illusion, granted this post is basically showing the deception, so I don't recommend that wholeheartedly.

Kas
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Tels



Joined: 24 Nov 2017
Posts: 23

PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2018 4:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have given that some thought, everyone was here for one reason or another, the reason I bring this up now, is because there is a plot ahead. Even if they wanna hack an slash til they feel comfortable to RP, I know many people have over the years.. the major problem is of course how empty the game is. I'm hoping that plots will bring back some old players at the same time.. theres no 2 ways around the empty feeling without getting more people here..

I agree with you on much of that Kassius, sure, it's possibly embaressing at first, but I believe it work a shot to get the word out, I did some looking and the latest posts I found that vaguely mention SG on google are from Nienne almost 10 years ago. Viola had a nice ad there, our selling points have changed slightly, but I think it could possibly bring some people in, hell even if 10 check it out and only 2 stay.. thats 2 more than we had..

We could bring back glory hunters in some fashion, an alternative list of shifters or something that hunts players in level ranges like the old days, which appear on lists as well to give that illusion. I know theres no clear cut way to make that happen easily.. still I feel if theres plots going on, even small one ofs with lower levels gets people moving, and may help liven the place up some. I perfectly understand how you feel, but we have to do something, and I feel the buzz of active plots truly is a great time to invite people to come join in. Otherwise we would definitely be just an empty world.

While thinking of some ways to heed your concerns Kass, I think the best chance we have of reaching out to old players is for Nienne to mass mail the forum users, ask them to come back and check out the new pantheon.. coincide that with an invite out to the internet, really the best bet I can put together for the best chance.
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kassius
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Joined: 17 Aug 2017
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2018 4:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I really hadn't given thought to the current plot and hope for it to stimulate the mud. I was thinking more of a general convo around spreading the word. I agree that it might be a good time if the plot entices players to play. I believe the biggest concern I have as a player is that there was a time not too long ago were Avatar plots were not needed to keep the player base higher, they contributed to it by aiding the world's realism, but players pushed stories, told stories and that enticed people to log in. I remember with characters I've had in the past I'd think all day at work about SG and how they should react to xyz. Now when I log out I barely even consider SG unless prepping for a plot or posting here.

I agree with Saide that SG got to dependent on immortals, I disagreed that it could change. I think it was to far down that rabbit hole to really go backwards. It was our niche and one we have perfected. It was like Apple after they fired Steve Jobs, it lost its vision. We need to find out why people still log in, why are the stranglers still logging back in? Do we have no other games we play? Is muds our thing? Are we broke and so free is good? What is it that keeps people logging in that are still here after 20 years? What brought Lus and you back? Why can't certain players(like myself) connect with the game like we used too.

All of this is off subject of your original post, but I think it all adds to it. In general though, I think you should post if you feel like it, but temper the expectation of what can really be done/etc. Sadhara is a good example IMO, she came in with TONS of ideas about what she wanted to do, is going to do, I believe her intentions were honorable, but a lot of what she wanted requires massive work from her side and immortal side, thats hard for either party to commit to with 5 other people seeing that work. In general I think new players come in with the expectation they can change the world completely, build legacies that are unforgettable and that simply isn't true. Very few characters are remember forever and usually that is by select players who enjoyed it and even I as an avatar can't change the world completely. So tempered expectations will help with burnout/upset/hurt feelings.

Kas
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Tels



Joined: 24 Nov 2017
Posts: 23

PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2018 5:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I only push that out there because this is a time for people to be remembered, a fresh pantheon, the worlds in a state of recovery and people that move the world will shine. Granted, more people equal to more interaction and that spreads, in a player base of about 20, it's nearly enough to keep itself afloat, of course that eventually dies down, people tend to wander off and after a while, here we are. I can't give a good reason why I returned a couple years ago, just outta the blue I was all, lets see whats been goin on in SG.. and here I am, I was gone during the Silence because of my odd work recently. I am slippin off topic here though..

Plots and Avatar interaction have always stimulated the players, especially old ones, because well weve scoured the world so much.. other than player interaction it turns into humdrum for some people, I missed the Silence, but the elemental war beforehand had a good 15 players running about, and that whole mess wasnt even mentioned in the forum, sad really, it was amazing I think. Even little things like gathering some items or paying fines to a guard for some infraction, etc. can be huge at perking up players, like oh wow, theres more going on here than just reactions to commands I type kinda thing..

Now ball those up together, looking at this ideally, the mail brings back a handful or so of old players, ads bring in new players, myself and Bannic at least would be willing to interact and push player driven quests and mini plots with young ones, Avatar plots keeps the world moving at large, while the players have something to toss around and involve themselves with. I agree, coming into this with high expectation of new ideas, it can being daunting on the code side, when theres a backlog and a lack of manpower at large. Saide leaving is really unfortunate, he has contributed some amazing stuff. Xnithi and people like her are great though as well, they bring ideas on making the world better, it's tough to hear like that's great but we can't code it up because we have too much to do already, that's something the player has to find a way to accept, everyone has to come to terms with why they are here and what they are looking for when they come. Nearly all player pushed plots I believe derive from an a Avatard plot somewhere down the line, because like you said, we can't change the world or even affect it in any way without an avatar. So is this a player problem or a staff problem really? I feel your hands are tied when you say you can't do anything to improve the world or make it 'living'. Lack of commitment due a low player base would mean more players coming in would make you more excited to get involved?

I can't claim to know if this will bring in new players by the dozens or anything but I believe it's worth a try, at worst, we are in the same boat and im staring at myself half the day as the only player around, at best, old players return, new players come in, and interaction skyrockets, we all have fun? Theres no one single thing that'll make this work, it really needs players and staff both, sadly noone wants to be burnt out too, so I have no good idea there..
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kassius
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Joined: 17 Aug 2017
Posts: 243

PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2018 6:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think you have an accurate ideas of what to post. I'd say go nuts Telsivar. If you post a link to any posts you make I'll comment from an immortal standpoint!

Kas
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xnithi



Joined: 25 Oct 2017
Posts: 57
Location: Texas, y'all

PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 12:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are a lot of things that I've wanted and do want, but I am patient. Some can happen... even if it's not the way I want. If we get people who are patient, and willing to give back, instead of just taking, then people will learn that change can happen, even if just slowly. And a lot of change can happen with roleplaying and documentation. Want to build your own city? Well, that system will take years to happen, if ever. However, we can still do things like working together with others to make our own guilds and cults. I think we need a guide on creative uses of player abilities to build our own plots and stories, and change our own worlds. In addition to what is easy and what is difficult for an imm to do. After all, things that take only minimal input from a mod and a lot of input from players can change much of the world. I think a lot of players want to help - they just don't know how.

And on the problem with new players coming in and not having people on, I agree with Tels. I cam in during the Elemental Wars, and that's what got me to love it. I fell in love with SG because of that, and even after it slowed down (and even after I slowed down, with RL depression and disassociation getting in the way), I've stayed here because of that experience. Plots seem like a fantastic time to draw in new players, as the MUD will be more active, there will be more active imms, and the appeal is at its best.
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undelhorn



Joined: 20 Jun 2014
Posts: 71

PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 12:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why do I play?

I dunno, N is a large reason. The other is that there is always some new development made to the game about once to twice a year at least.

Why do I stop playing?

Burn out. You know getting stomped in the same quest over and over sucked when you would just loose gear and exp. Now you keep it all, but must spend hours fixing it. I am not asking to make those parts of the game easier because the thing I love about SG is its old school hardness that is like something straight out of a game from the 1990s or NES. I mean sometimes I rage quit right there because of that yelling "Stupid bug!" but it isn't a bug or a glitch. Its just old school.

Other times its because I log in and no one is on or if they are then they are several levels above me and cannot join in on the quest. This problem I find happens most when I hit roughly level 15-22ish with almost every character I've made which is why I've never really made it past that mark. Its easy to start a new lowbie, especially now with the express newbie thing, but then players hit the Dark Trails or something and rush through those middle levels to the higher levels. On the one hand I want to do that and just pass these few levels fast, but there are quests in there I've never done so I avoid the fast grinds for the reward of doing those quests. (this is where I'm at now btw stuck in the 17-22 level range.)

Last real reason I can think of is that I want to allow N and the rest to make their coded changes after the big events and because I know that people really play most during summer and winter when school is out.

What can be done to attract more people?

First post on the Reddit for MUDs - https://old.reddit.com/r/MUD/ - I do not know if anyone has, but one really just trash MUD got the highlight for the MUD of the month there so the bar is pretty low.

If the IMMs could run a splash message when they are doing a major overhaul that would take them away from running a plot, like while the Temples were being added, which might explain to new players why temporarily there is less activity.

One reason I still fully support MUDs is that they offer a chance for the blind community to play games with us through screen readers. We could maybe try some outreach within whatever circles there are within that community?

Finally, make my gnome (Haydn) the Mayor of Verbobone. This may not work, but it also seems like it might. Laughing

Player Plots

Sometimes they work, especially when unintended. Like the Goblin invasion of Tabor... I have a suspicion that my gnome may have started that by pooling NPC Mobs into one room and then leading them into Tabor while being invisible to let the guards take care of the mess for me while I just collected the lootz and exps. A few elves caught on and then a week or so later there was a plot based on it. So I guess what I am saying is just have fun playing with how things work and maybe an IMM will run with it.

I'm always causing trouble and stirring the pot as my gnome. Like I mean it is what gnomes are for and well for example I want to become the Mayor of Verbobone or some other tropical oasis so that I can build a giant garden. Why do I want to do that? Because I was scrying on some elves that think they are better at manipulating plant life than a Garden Gnome. Why, I have the respect and distinction of gnomes every where to consider. If I didn't politic my way into a government just to corrupt it and bankrupt the economy on a totally irresponsible gnomish garden just to prove the elves wrong then what sort of gnome would I be?!

I just hope people remember my gnome, by the way when are my books going in? I've submitted like 5-6 I think and I have a few more to write once I finish the next quest.

Cya this weekend
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ballegator



Joined: 21 Jul 2015
Posts: 19
Location: Daytona Beach

PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 8:13 pm    Post subject: Re: Spreading the word Reply with quote

Tels wrote:
So I just wanna ask for everyones opinion on working out some sort of advertisement for SG that can be posted to RP boards and similiar places, an influx of new players I think would help the game immensely, this should be obvious really. Any thoughts out there on the content and such?


One of the reasons I never said anything about Shadowgate anywhere is because it used to be taboo. You could get in trouble for talking about it and I just never wanted to take the chance.

Now that it seems it's ok to talk about, I think this is relatively simple. I'll go out there to Mudconnect, Reddit and others, and leave glowing reviews and comments. I'm sure someone can come up with a banner of some sort and can post it here in the forums so that if we want, we can post it other places.

We also might want to have a few players be GIO's (game information officers) for lack of a better name. Just a couple of people that are well-versed on SG and can answer peoples questions OUTSIDE the game. Once their inside, we have the newbie and ooc lines.

I'm with the others that have responded so far when they talk about newbies and the issues with a low playerbase. As long as we get one new player out of a batch of ten, that's a good ratio IMO.

I'm a little nervous about more players coming in, to be honest. If we start getting new players in and our avatars and imms don't interact, we need to make sure the players that ARE here help as best we can. Otherwise what's the whole point?

I've always said we need to advertise so lets get out there and do it!
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Tels



Joined: 24 Nov 2017
Posts: 23

PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 12:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

True, so we just have to be sure to welcome new players as much as possible, everyone started sometime, and we currently have two pretty new player that are active now, so I don't feel it'll be too much of a problem personally.

So I went ahead and put out an ad on reddit in /MUD and /DnD located:
https://www.reddit.com/r/MUD/comments/8qlpgd/welcome_to_shadowgate_your_adventures_await/

https://www.reddit.com/r/DnD/comments/8qmnsc/shadowgate_mud_based_on_3rd_edition_d20_system/

If you've a reddit account it'd help if you'd upvote them for better placement, thanks in advance.
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ViolaRose



Joined: 20 Apr 2015
Posts: 113

PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for taking the initiative, Tels! I gives you many cookies.

I upvoted and added a comment on the MuD part of Reddit.

Awhile back there was someone on Reddit who hated Shadowgate so passionately he actually bothered posting just to let everyone know. Can't wait for him to show up! Laughing
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undelhorn



Joined: 20 Jun 2014
Posts: 71

PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 7:36 pm    Post subject: Re: Spreading the word Reply with quote

ballegator wrote:
One of the reasons I never said anything about Shadowgate anywhere is because it used to be taboo. You could get in trouble for talking about it and I just never wanted to take the chance.


Wha? I mean I did not know that why and when was that the case?
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ballegator



Joined: 21 Jul 2015
Posts: 19
Location: Daytona Beach

PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 7:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Way back in the day, when I first stated, roughly 1995 or so. You could get rid and banned for talking about the game outside the game itself. I'm just extra paranoid and didn't want to take that any further, especially when it comes to advertising.
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Tels



Joined: 24 Nov 2017
Posts: 23

PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 1:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you very much everyone who upvoted and posted a little so far on the ads, it really helps I think and hopefully we will get some new player activity going, which I think a couple have shown up so all good so far!
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