Shadowgate Forum Index Shadowgate
You can't fudge your dice rolls here...
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

SG's state of concerns
Goto page 1, 2, 3  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Shadowgate Forum Index -> Coding ideas & discussion
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Tels



Joined: 24 Nov 2017
Posts: 23

PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2018 2:53 am    Post subject: SG's state of concerns Reply with quote

So this past week I've spoken with current players and what staff I could about their concerns on the state of things currently. The most common point is the powerleveling, how to slow players down without shackling them? RP focus is the best response for that so far obviously if one spends the time in RP, they aren't out cycling areas. But again, in the same boat, travelling with a group of friends in areas can be good RP times too. What are the things players can do on their side to help distract themselves from grinding away? The goal here with leveling is to find a good means to keep people from min maxing overnight so rp becomes less of a slam fest I guess. Kassius' suggestion of new characters in plots could be helpful, having some plots for certain ranges and things, which he does to an extent already.

Number two on the list from what I've gathered is likely more focused on the players perspective side of things concerning staff. Players would like to hear from staff more regularly, the biggest draw just being we like to hear from you guys (Staffers), while I don't think we want up to the minute code reports or anything just a hey, on the regular, let them know your still with them.

The third concern lately brought up is the website is falling behind a little, I know Nienne has an overflowing plate with everything else, there were suggestions from adding to the layout with interesting realm news and gossip to updating it so it does not seem abandoned, while I never thought much of copyright dating, it was mentioned SG's hasnt been updated since last year and it's June.

While preferably seeking out solutions that require minimal coding to put into effect, the two best recieved ideas on improving the interaction of players and slowing players are thus far, a rebirthing system where your character is left behind in a npc state, maybe scripted with some recounts of old adventures, and the new character begins with a little bonus or something, the second was something of a reverse item claim, where you find this item, when you do points begin accumulating, it can be stolen or taken by force, when returned if it gains enough points you receive credit in a specialty store of sorts. Just basic outlines of some possibilities but they both seem heavy on the coder side to implement.

Please feel free to leave any other concerns and suggestions I may have missed below and hopefully we can find some constructive ways to improve together.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ViolaRose



Joined: 20 Apr 2015
Posts: 113

PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2018 10:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My thoughts.....

1. While I know this would to a degree shackle players, and also that I suggested it a few years back without any response, I'll try it again. This idea comes from a pretty cool mud I tried some time ago, so I'll just link the website here and hope that it isn't too terribly frowned upon to be promoting another game! I'd just love to see something like this implemented on SG, but it would likely be a bit of a project, which we're trying to avoid:

http://www.unwrittenlegends.net/experience.php

My only other suggestion would be to flag the roleplayers, and have the roleplayers follow certain unspoken rules about the rate of advancing, taking time to develop their character, not reaching 50 and leveling a new character every week, etc. Maybe people could have their (untagged) arsenal of power characters (with the understanding that untagged means they won't be participating in roleplay, pk, etc., but they're itching the grind itch all the same), and then also another character for when they just want to take their time, grow as a character, and roleplay.

I know that isn't the sort of solution you're looking for, but it's all I got. (I think the reverse claim thing sounds fun, and could inspire a bit of conflict for those who care to engage in it).

As for your other points..

2. I like not knowing if the imms are there or not, because I can at least pretend like they are. Heh!

3. Yep!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Tels



Joined: 24 Nov 2017
Posts: 23

PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2018 11:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mmm yeah I was pretty tired when I tried to compile this, for #2 it was more of a every couple weeks drop a hey or something on the forum or the board or whatever, not a constant im here, thing.. sorry for any mix up on that.

A certain flag system was discussed a few months back, but I guess other things have kinda kept it from bein hammered out.

The rebirth system was brought up to kinda give options for people who have played their character past expiration, while leaving behind a bit of content and story, and having a bit of a perk to encourage more perhaps. Could cut back on Alts and things maybe.. I dunno.

Thats an interesting system in words, I had a thought on exp issues, while a lot of people probably wanna play that cool lookin evil race cuz hell.. we have 3 times more cool evil races than good ones, you gotta be accounted with at least 30 levels in, for a new player that can daunting, for one of us who can play a large chunk of SG with our eyes closed probably not even a thought hitting 30, so Id suggest leveling past 30 should take much longer, and prestige levels even more so.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ViolaRose



Joined: 20 Apr 2015
Posts: 113

PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 1:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sure, if your ultimate goal is to increase the amount of time it takes to advance, then requiring more exp, or giving less out, after 30, will be great. But that will only encourage people to grind harder and roleplay even less, in my opinion. I really don't see how you can achieve both things, leveling slower AND encouraging roleplay, without instating some sort of cap (or without rewarding roleplay, but ain't nobody got time for that).

EDIT to clairfy with that link above, it is just the buffer part of it that I think is pretty neato. So you grind to fill it, and then head off to roleplay while it drains and you gain levels while just kicking back ale at the Rhapsody. (I also like the idea of losing some of it when you die, because that, too, will slow things down, but it's not a terribly massive punishment).
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Tels



Joined: 24 Nov 2017
Posts: 23

PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 2:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well that way is an interesting idea, I think there 2 points to this really, one being people seem to not RP until 50, and two being if you know what your doing and you got the time you can pop out 50s every other week or so. As a player from before the 3E conversion that'd be super hard to reach like 15 in a couple weeks. And RP seemed more rampant because of the high penalties of death and gear loss could basically slow you down to a standstill at times.

I think it's a lot to do with lack of players on regular basis, or that RP really isn't the main focus as much unless you're powerful? Progression is as fast as the player wants it right now pretty much. I'm not exactly for or against anything just trying to find ideas that benefits the whole while bringing in more players that wish to stay and have fun.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Uriel



Joined: 09 Dec 2013
Posts: 145
Location: Chicago

PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 2:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

2 quicks thoughts --

1.) The game was made more accessible and open to players to play how they wanted. It is also less reliant on immortal intervention -- play how you like!

2.) If a player does not want to RP at a disadvantage, and would prefer to ladder up to L50 to be like every other player, why is that an issue? Get used to (near)-parity! There is no hierarchy, just people who want to show up and play Smile
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Nienne
Immortal


Joined: 17 Nov 2006
Posts: 2764
Location: Aussieland

PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 11:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

On the imm side at least, sorry I've been fairly absent the last few months; RL has been fairly much a write-off until recently, and I'm getting back to being human again now Smile New job means no leave for a while tho, and the timezone still means I don't see many of you tho. I do try to say hi when I see a few around. Website/etc I'll try to get back to updating as possible.

I'll keep an eye on the thread, I probably can't get to some of the bigger project wishes just now but it's nice to keep them in mind for when time allows Smile
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Gia



Joined: 03 Feb 2017
Posts: 58

PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2018 11:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RL is currently keeping me away from the game, but I do have some thoughts on this topic:

1: Would it be at all possible to “hire” a new tier of volunteer staff whose main obligation it was to update the web-page, (possibly) clean up the in-game help-files, help out newbies (perhaps with some minor interactions just to show them the ropes) and advertise? This new tier might not have to be awfully good at coding or have the know-how of fully-fledged avatars, but they could at least help out with some of the back-log and lift some weight of the shoulders of our current coders. They could be called the HR-Unit or “Marketeers”.

2: I enjoy the idea of having flags on our characters to tell us if someone is there to roleplay and develop stories and characters, or just there to power-level and kill Vecna and then rinse and repeat with a new character.

(I do realize it is possible to be both a power-leveler and a role-player and naturally I think both types should play by the same rules and restrictions when it comes to levels and PT.)

When I was active, the main issue with the game was that it often feels like less of an immersive, collaborative creative story-telling experience and more like a multiplayer arms race type game. That, in my opinion, has nothing to do with avatar-interaction (or alleged lack thereof), but more to do with the general mind-set of the player-base. Even in times of very active avatars, it sometimes feels as though some players only really RP when the avatar is visibly present in the scene. When the avatar is gone, the RP tends to revert back to discussions about the last time one killed Vecna and how many enchantments one has on ones sword.

(I mean no offense, I have seen some great RP as well and I know that with my time-zone I miss a lot. I just really feel like the problem with lack of RP lays with the player-base, not with the avatars.)

I realize that is the name of the game now but having flags or some sort of way to easily assess whether a specific PC wants to RP or slay stuff (with little to no RP) would save me some time and frustration. I also realize SG probably always was an arms race, but it was easier to ignore when there were rules in place to prevent power-leveling and ensure RP.

3: As a community, would it be possible to come up with some neat and simple guide-lines for how we want to treat each-other and what type of environment we wish to foster? Not hard rules, but a reminder that we are, in fact, a community coming together to have fun and tell a story, as opposed to a set of players coming to “win a game” and a set of staffers/developers delivering a service. If that is the direction we want to go, of course. That would probably have to be a new thread and take a lot of voting, but it could be doable.

(These forums in themselves and many of the recent changes on privacy and secrecy is a very good step in the direction towards a full-fletched community.)

Peace out and good night,
Gia
_________________
"The truth may be out there, but the lies are inside your head." T. Pratchett
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Daniel



Joined: 25 Dec 2014
Posts: 12

PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 8:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have dabbled a bit in website building since the late 90's and currently taken it up to a more, proffesional state, selling a few in the past year. I don't see much work in the frontend of the website while we already have all the details in form of texts. Yes maybe there need a few updates on the classes races and pantheon, but it can be an easy fix.

I don't mind taking a swing at making a new updated design on the site, I can just play around and throw it into one of my domains, and when I have a first draft, I can link to the site and ppl can throw their comments at me, and we can get a more inviting and "new" site. I will design it in wordpress as it will be easier for either me, Nienne or somelse to add new content in form of miniblogs onto the site when new stuff happends.

and offcourse, I will do it for free Smile as I wanna see this community thrive

One last thing, I have a website in production atm, but it should be fully by the weekend, and I will have a first design draft done by early next week.

What do players and imms alike say to a suggestion like this ?

Daniel
/Gaspar/Cedric
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ViolaRose



Joined: 20 Apr 2015
Posts: 113

PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 6:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That is immensely generous of you!

Of course I can't speak on behalf of the imms, but I think a fresh website would be just grand. I'd even volunteer to update it as needed.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ViolaRose



Joined: 20 Apr 2015
Posts: 113

PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 11:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also..

"Would it be at all possible to “hire” a new tier of volunteer staff whose main obligation it was to update the web-page, (possibly) clean up the in-game help-files, help out newbies (perhaps with some minor interactions just to show them the ropes) and advertise? This new tier might not have to be awfully good at coding or have the know-how of fully-fledged avatars, but they could at least help out with some of the back-log and lift some weight of the shoulders of our current coders. They could be called the HR-Unit or “Marketeers”."

I think this is a great idea. I'd be happy to volunteer for something like this.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
kassius
Site Admin


Joined: 17 Aug 2017
Posts: 243

PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2018 4:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Guys,

I've bite my tongue for weeks, because I love the effort, however, I want to be clear that I believe it is wasted effort and you can't save something that has been dying for years. SG has had a good run and will continue to survive by the few of us that allow it to linger on life-support. The mud currently has zero players at 11:30AM on a Saturday. How are we ever going to convince a new person to play SG when we can't convince people with experience of it to play? SG has over 40 people on Abagale's retirement home facebook chat. 121 likes and 124 followers on its facebook group.

Fact of the matter is SG has always taken massive amounts of time and its player base has become older, less able to do it. I'm only able to dedicate the amount of time required to plot 2 times RP time, because I'm unemployed currently. SG's niche as I told admin multiple times was it RP and that is gone, to be honest I don't think admin was wrong to change it. I did at the time, but our playerbase and immortal staff except for a few had become elitist.

Nienne is an amazing woman and she will find time again(why I never understand Smile) and continue to keep this place on life-support as she has for so many years. I'll probably get bored and log in with periods like I have lately, to vanish again in the future for X amount of time. The mud will spike for a bit, then drop again. It has been doing this for almost a decade. During the time I played Alzar. There were times where I was the only person only for hours, there were times when it was Dorje and I for hours or Dorje, Krusk and I. Then the mud spiked for about 3 months with Azalon, Saqira, Amarina, Belen, Abby, Bentalf, and Rayne. I thought we were in heaven.. Oh and Ramius.. Then Ramius left, then someone else till it was no one again. I stopped playing for a few months to come back and it spiked again. This has happened for years.. Alzar was created in 2010, so at least 8 years, the difference now is that the spikes are shorter and not as great.

So please do what you feel is best, but don't waste your precious life trying to save something that I personally believe is dying. I tried that with Kassius during my first go around and refuse to do that again, I'm just playing again, well avataring, because I enjoy it a bit. This isn't meant to be a lightning rod and start a debate or argument, it isn't meant to discourage anyone from helping the mud, but it is meant to get people to truly think if this is were they want to dedicate their life helping. SG is great, but it had its run and is being overwhelmed by new entertainment and new generation of players with less attention span than this game requires.


Kas
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Mikyn



Joined: 02 Jul 2015
Posts: 32

PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2018 9:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow, way to crap on any optimism. Remind me not to think of you when I need a pep talk.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
saide
Immortal


Joined: 18 Mar 2007
Posts: 395

PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 3:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, here's my opinion - I am not worried about power leveling, I never have been, half of the people complaining about it being a bad thing do it themselves. They always have.

At one point in time Tristan was power leveling on Attaya with Alfero while level capping players who were leveling too fast. I could go on but I have no desire to single anyone out, if you do not know if this applies to you, it probably does and you probably know it whether or not you want to admit it. If you have a problem with my post then let me know and I can delete you from the server. To be quite honest I no longer fucking care if I offend you. It is not my intention but I am quite content with accepting that I have offended you and that you no longer want to play. I can make that happen. Once again this is not my intention with this post at all but I am to the point in life where I am more interested in being honest and to the point instead of trying to beat around the bush or hold hands with people ( I have no problem holding hands and trying to walk people through things who have not already been through them a lot but to be honest most of you reading this, if not all, have already been through this).

So if you start imposing restrictions on leveling, find a new server. The end. Do not close my server either. I'll spend the time to re-open it and immediately remove anyone who closed it.

I have no issues if someone (I honestly do not care who) wants to take the code base and somehow make it into a RP only/enforced game. You are free to use any code I have created and continue to modify it the way that you see fit, but I am not going to be part of creating a game that caters to the elite who get to spend insane amounts of time each day logged in developing their characters while those who have actual lives that require time invested are just left to rot because they do not meet some arbitrary time requirement or whatever. Those days are gone. As long as I live there will be a server that uses current code (maybe people will open a new server and develop new code that I am not subject to, I am fine with this, and I am not going to stop them) letting players play how they want to.

Hopefully eventually new players will emerge. I am not quite as pessimistic as Kassius is but I would be an idiot to think all that he says is wrong. It is not. It has been a SG trend and if you look at that trend you will notice that a select few individuals are typically the ones that end up powerful, the stories are geared toward them, etc., and they get all the good shit from "RP" while they are basically insulated because they are able to "RP" with groups of people.

SG will never recoup (or my own server or some other server should the name change or whatever) until the community becomes more open and inclusive. There needs to be more content, more engagement from the players (either in the form of really open/in depth RP or maybe some means of mechanical leveling/content that evolves to meet the needs of a rapidly changing player base - "rapidly is subject to interpretation I know that we do not get a lot of new players"). I do not at this moment in time have an answer that solves the problem. I wish that I did.

However, once again do not impose restrictions on leveling. If you do. Find another server. The end.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Vaser



Joined: 30 Aug 2016
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 6:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kassius - I agree with you on many points about the decline of the player base and that it is definitely an uphill battle. I do not agree that it is a wasted effort, as those efforts have directly led to true newbies trying the game. A lot of changes have led to a more fostering community and that is amazing and appreciated.

saide - Removing the time and HM restrictions on leveling is one of the main reasons I returned to playing after 10 years and I would hate to see it return. That being said, can we look at the speed of leveling? A reduction in the leveling speed (lowered xp) as a whole would encourage more exploring and less content being passed over, and more chance at roleplay due to the character being around longer before being shelved for the next alt.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Shadowgate Forum Index -> Coding ideas & discussion All times are GMT
Goto page 1, 2, 3  Next
Page 1 of 3

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © phpBB Group. Hosted by phpBB.BizHat.com