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30 cap?

 
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Aunuit



Joined: 14 Jul 2014
Posts: 9
Location: oregon

PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2015 9:32 am    Post subject: 30 cap? Reply with quote

This has probably already been discussed elsewhere but will there ever be a cap for HM account chars that haven't earned HM with their current chars? I only ask because it seems like that would help deter those who do speed up to max level without really earning it with their current toon.

If not, is there a particular reason why there isn't? I think a lot of us HMs would be for it.
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ViolaRose



Joined: 20 Apr 2015
Posts: 80

PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2015 5:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I could be wrong but I believe the removal of this cap was one of the reason accounts were implemented in the first place. The lack of available imms meant for a very long time nobody at all was granted hm and players stagnated around 30 with nobody to deem them worthy or unworthy of progress.. and the idea with the accounts was that a former hm would be trustworthy enough to not abuse the opportunity to advance to 40.

Since, we've seen a handful of players advance unknown right up to level 40, and then decide they were ready to start interacting and, in most cases, pking.

But is implementing the cap again punishing all because of the actions of a few? If the cap was implemented again (not to mention the introduction of epic feats) is there anyone available to make sure those who earn hm get it and not simply hit a wall for so long they give up??

The account system is cool in some ways, but has been equally detrimental to the game with the rapid rise of alts.. maybe it just needs to be removed from the game (or at least the perks that come with being linked to an hm account).. Except for alterobj. For the love of everything sacred, please don't take away alterobj! Maybe with the intro of epic feats and a reinstating of the 30 cap, alterobj can be opened to all but based off a higher skill.

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Aunuit



Joined: 14 Jul 2014
Posts: 9
Location: oregon

PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2015 6:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh true I suppose it does stream line things during times when we are low on immortals. However, I'm not sure if anyone waited an inordinate amount of time (compared to the past) during a lull. I think there is almost always someone keeping an eye.

It does seem unfortunate that the actions of a few might hinder the rest BUT I would say it's happening pretty often. I think the only time anyone really takes notice is when people rush up to PK, but I know there have been a few level 40s with pretty limited RP and no real accomplishments of note at that level. Then when those people reach max level there are no repercussions because technically they've not done anything 'wrong' and it puts immortals between a rock and a hard place because they don't want to chase off a player, especially an HM.

I love accounts as well, because of alterobj and the ability not to have to race request. I do think rushing up the levels has been a negative side effect so that's why I wondered about a cap. Maybe the cap could even only exist for a certain amount of ptime? I dunno, just brainstorming.
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beshaba



Joined: 02 Aug 2011
Posts: 55

PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2015 6:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not sure the players who hide until they're geared and max level should really have a bearing on whether the cap comes back for non-HMs. Those players were just as guilty before-hand, the only difference is that you'd see a random lvl 30 in full gear appear out of nowhere, instead of a lvl 40.

Granted, the cap would allow established characters a buffer against those who can't RP until they're in a position of power, but that only takes into account the PK ramifications. The RP is still utter shit with the cap, and without the cap, in those cases. If those 10 levels are the only reason someone is willing to put in the effort to RP, then they do not fit the rest of the criteria for HM.

I guess I'm not arguing for or against. I think the situation is damned if you do, damned if you don't.
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Aunuit



Joined: 14 Jul 2014
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Location: oregon

PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2015 4:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Those last 10 levels are usually a pretty big deal to our power leveling, gear hungry folk but I'd be fine with the cap being as low as 20-25 too if that would be more impactful.
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Nienne
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Joined: 17 Nov 2006
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PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2015 12:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The main problem is that we've introduced this more than once during my time upstairs, and each time it's been rolled back; it doesn't really resolve the problem overall. At this point we only have a few players who are using a HM-flagged account to do this, and I don't know that I really want to necessarily see everyone else penalised for playing along properly when it's a few that are theoretically abusing the system. Per Beshaba, it's mainly the PK ramifications here that are the problem... and the grief from either side whether there's a cap or not:

-with the level-cap, non-HM alts still want to experience the whole game that they're already familiar with. Not every alt is HM calibre, and I don't feel it works to try and force that on someone that can't be bothered to do it properly, nor compromise and simply award it out of frustration for those who are constantly badgering for it.
-without the levelcap, HMs have no tangible edge over non-HMs and we end up with a few PK-happy kids who race up, appear from nowhere and stab everyone in the face, potentially sabotaging major RP arcs in the process with no concern for the outcome.

The epic feats we're at work on are an attempt to find a middle-ground here. Leaving full levels open to anyone who has earned HM "at some point" (theoretically thus responsible enough to handle said levels) means end-game is potentially open to anyone, even if they don't have the development time they used to, or a concept that works just right. It also means a potentially broader playerbase at max level - you know how hard those Klauth parties are to come by even now, and that's with the raised cap for alts. But it still maintains our intent to reward those who put the effort into their particular character. The feat theoretically serves both for cool factor (I hope), and an extra power leg-up as well.

Is it enough? I don't really know, honestly - since only druids have them so far, it's hard to say, particularly since until now that was part of the core class which has been top dog for a while. My hope is that the feats will meet that middle ground with allowing (theoretically) anyone to play at max level, but still give HMs that edge they have earned. They're not going to be an overnight roll-out, unforch, as most of them are relatively lib-intensive to install (and some painting-intensive as well!), and certain classes (mage/sorc, bard, thief) have needed some baseline class updates before the feats could be balanced appropriately. I'm working my way down the list Smile

I'm certainly open to other suggestions if folks have them? I'm just not sure after seeing the levelcap implemented and then rolled back more than once, that it's really the answer to the problem.
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Zathery



Joined: 30 Sep 2013
Posts: 38
Location: Sweden

PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2015 10:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd like to point out that gaining high mortal at one point isn't a permanent thing. I'm not saying if you don't play X amount per month or real life forces you away for Y amount of time, you don't deserve it anymore. But if someone is playing on dated merits and abusing the system, which usually means Powerlevel to PK, at leaste in where this discussion seems to be heading, then they aren't worthy of HM anymore, and should have it removed, locking out request race PCs, HM commands like alterobj, locking any PC whom has personal property (aka housing) out of it etc.

Also on a side note, if the higher levels aren't offlimits, I don't think the lower levels should be either. This issue came up earlier today. If you willingly remove your PK flag or RP in a way that truely antagonizes someone, in the setting even goodies are within rights to dish out punishment without having to get the whole 'im out of level range of you and going to mail law'. To me rolling a beast race or openly evil or zealotly good person from level 1 should carry some weight to that decision. I've never been a PK based player, even back when PK was a lot more wide spread, but taking Zathery as an example, to his faith seeing and then beheading even a level 1 follower of Bane outright, was a good and justified deed.

What I don't like seeing is beastrace characters and 'secret sociopaths' lurking with level based protection when the game is about roleplaying a character, for good or ill, which is, I suspect, a major reason why beast races are limited to HM flagged accounts or requests, you should know what you're getting into.

Anyway, back on topic. I guess I'm both for and against a hm only levelcap. I'd like to see HM actually be wholly meaningful again, but since I don't like levels to dictate roleplay I'd prefer the strengths be mainly in IC things, and if HM was a signal of trust perhaps more IC authority, such as stewardship over cities etc. I mean, if someone does powerlevel and then PK someone ICly important, it could and should bring hell down upon them. And if someone is just powerlevelling to PK, I hear there is this command of levelcapping a character. I mean if it was someones obvious intention to max level asap for awesome gear and then murder people whom may be running plots, or spent a hell of alot of time building relationships to do those hard to complete places. I'd just be kind to that person, put their max level at 10 and reduce their exp to that level, so they reached the max level they'd see for a very long time, surely that would make them happy?
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Nienne
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PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2015 12:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zathery wrote:
But if someone is playing on dated merits and abusing the system, which usually means Powerlevel to PK, at leaste in where this discussion seems to be heading, then they aren't worthy of HM anymore, and should have it removed


Definitely agree. However I'd like to see it remain for those who may not have the massive required days on alts that still just want to mess around once a week or something.

Zathery wrote:
Also on a side note, if the higher levels aren't offlimits, I don't think the lower levels should be either.


I'm not sure what falls outside of this that isn't covered within either levelcheck or threaten? If a lowbie's lording it up as a beast race, and they don't show appropriate fear, warn them, and then stomp them if necessary; that's the point of the commands. As always, expected to be handled reasonably, don't just lolstop every newbie you find or you will have noone left to play with. Note that levelcheck restricts lowbies from highbies the same way it works in reverse. So both sides are similarly limited.

Zathery wrote:
I'd prefer the strengths be mainly in IC things, and if HM was a signal of trust perhaps more IC authority, such as stewardship over cities etc. I mean, if someone does powerlevel and then PK someone ICly important, it could and should bring hell down upon them.


This always falls upon one or two imms maintaining the current upkeep/interactions (this is what your PKmails are for) and if there's not an imm with time to deal with it, it goes by the wayside. We can't reasonably automate this. We already can and do bring repercussions for PK where it's merited ICly and we're able.

Zathery wrote:
And if someone is just powerlevelling to PK, I hear there is this command of levelcapping a character. I mean if it was someones obvious intention to max level asap for awesome gear and then murder people whom may be running plots, or spent a hell of alot of time building relationships to do those hard to complete places. I'd just be kind to that person, put their max level at 10 and reduce their exp to that level, so they reached the max level they'd see for a very long time, surely that would make them happy?


Somehow I think this might be a little more than we can fairly hand out. I'd expect the abovementioned removal of HM for the account would be a more reasonable repercussion - if they are no longer acting within the spirit of that status and are abusing its perks.
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Verbannon



Joined: 30 Sep 2013
Posts: 398

PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2015 4:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why not just tinker with the XP penalty for rapid leveling? That seems to me to be the most sensible thing. Just think to yourself "Alright, how long should it actually take on average for someone doing Good RP to reach X level?" And fiddle with the XP penalty for rapid leveling until it successfully slows leveling down that much. And let the avatars just hand out extra XP when they see good RP to compensate.

My other suggestion is that the xp cap also query how many people are logged in, so if there are a lot of people on, that it slows xp gain from leveling in order to promote RP without risking people having nothing to do when there is next to nobody on.
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Nienne
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PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2015 10:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, we have done with the XP penalty already. I just don't want it to negatively impact those who aren't power-grinding and don't have often to log in. So I'm not sure how to solve one without causing an unnecessary penalty to the other...
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